Day One, March 12th Jon Andrews: WACC (Western Avalanche Control Council) This February Jon went to a week long International Society of Explosive Engineers, (ISEE), conference. Jon gave a presentation to the ISEE to educate them on what we as avalanche blasters, and hopefully to dispel some of their ideas that we are unsafe. He also pointed out that 90% of commerce and recreation is effected by avalanche control in the winter, and thus we are an important part of the explosives community. He introduced the idea of including an avalanche control section to the ISEE. They seemed very receptive.
Jon feels that it is important to organize locally and have members of WACC become more involved with national organizations and the larger explosive community. (After all, we all do the same thing, in that we use explosives in the work place.) Some of the advantages are more resources on education, research and development, as well as dealing with issues on the legislative front. One important step is to re-establish the PNW Chapter of the ISEE and become individual members for around $15.00 per year. Participation is essential!
Some of the issues that came up is that other explosives interties still see the detonation system of our hand charges as archaic and don’t seem to understand our safety record of ignitions per poundage of explosives and what we have done about the accidents involving the use of Cap and fuse- strengthened our training programs and becoming more involved with other blasters. Also, that there are no safe alternatives to the hand held detonation system at the present time. (Research is being done with the electrical detonation system, but it still seems to be a ways out before a viable solution). Another issue was a longer fuse is not a safer alternative either. Jon was asked if he thought the three fatalities with the cap and fuse since the 1950's is an acceptable risk. His answer was no, but showed our procedures and guidelines to lower the risk. (We all follow an industry standard, as well as in area standards.)
On other WACC issues, Jon pointed out that there is little information on training and education for the new comers to avalanche blasting. The NSAA blasting video is too expensive, and only available to members. The cost is too much, so not many use it. We need information to be available to all blasters. This is where WACC should come in. With specific guidelines and training that we create, we could get everyone on the same page. This coming fall we will put on an educational seminar for first and second year blasters. Rob Onstott, of ORICA, said he is willing to put on training sessions in other areas of blasting for us as well. Three committees have been set up to create an information resource for all avalanche blasters: Committee 1: Resource Guide of Avalanche Explosive Use Rob Onstott, Jon Andrews, & Tighe Stoyanass Committee 2: Research & Development of Avalanche Control Explosives Joanne Stanford & Chris Brixey Committee 3: Rescue Chet Mowebry, Betsy Nelson, & Patty Morrison
Please send your recourse photos and information to these committees.
Another subject that Jon brought up, is that of the Washington Code. We need to keep in mind that we the users, help develop this code. Over the years, we have been given the ability to give input for changes made. He is presently working on House Bill 1280, which deals with the licensing of blasters and background check issues. L& I was willing to discuss and work with the WACC position on this issue. So far, it has passed the House and now is gone to the Senate. Jon will testify to the Senate on March 17th. Another issue is the ski area lift lines being listed in the inhabited buildings. This needs to be addressed soon. This could effect ski areas greatly, by further expansion and moving of magazines. Ways to address this is to lobby BATFE via letters and emails and show WACC support. Important for people to get involved and participate!!!
Future WACC Proposals: WACC becoming non-profit (501-C3) WACC changing name to include other states (“Washington” to become “Western”) Using WACC Blog until web site is ready Posting email listing for easier communication Establish who is willing to participate from each ski area and DOT for information exchange. Training Seminar for next fall
Tighe Stoyanoss : Unusual Snowpack Tighe asked about the unusual pack and wondered if areas were getting post control slides. Both Schwitzer and Bachelor have.
Patty Morrison: Summary of Northerly Aspect Weak layer at Stevens Pass After the January rain event, a thick layer of facets developed on the Northerly aspects. This layer has been persistent and approximately 20 cm thick, and is buried by more than a meter. So far it hasn’t much energy, but could be a problem with more load. This year there has been an unusual number of reports on whumping and settlement sounds from back country users. Possibly this layer?
Mark Moore: Future of NWAC Last ten years NWAC has had a decrease in funding. By 2010, NWAC will lose Forest Service Funding. A two year study was created to see what could be done to help. Senate Bill 5596 could contribute $144,000 per year if passed. Possibility of State License Plate revenue as well. NWAC’s website will merge with Friends of NWAC, so that revenue from advertising could be achieved. Hope to happen by late spring and ready for use by next winter season. Mark also brought up that the current Avalanche Danger Scale is under review. Bruce Tremper surveyed many people and found the “considerable” category still mis-understood by many public recreationalists. New focus is on making the scale more user friendly for teir 1 users. Mark asked if anybody was interested in doing a similar survey in the NW. Talk to him if you are interested.
Mark informed us that the CR10x data loggers will be phased out and changed toCR5000's. Taylor Scientific will still service the CR10X’s though.
Besty Nelson:Questions about Instrumentation Mt. Bachelor has an intense riming problem and wants to know how to deal with it. Suggestions we to check to see how old their instruments are and check the thermistors. Taylor Scientific is her best resource.
Dave Sly: CIL Orion Product Review Dave gave a review of the products he offers. (Check website for more info.) CIL Orion has just bought out Martin and Shaft. No more notices with the pull wire igniter, they will be avalanche control friendly. Tail Fins have been worked on to fit better, some cracking have been reported and considered a manufacturing problem that is being addressed. Rebate check sent to AAA for explosive training could be split with WAC, to insure that it gets used for proper intention of explosive education for avalanche control. Dave feels that most of the avalaucher guns in use are potential dangerous because of no vessel pressure certifications. Guns should be inspected every two years
Tour of Mt. Hood Meadows Group was led around to see unique problems of Meadows avalanche terrain. We were shown the 105 Howitzer which has improved their program immensely as far as safety to patrollers and having the specific area (Heather Canyon) open more often and in a timely manner. Meadows has just opened up some new terrain where trams are an appropriate means of delivery. Great Area.
Day Two, March 13th
Jon Andrews - Summing up Proposals for WACC Decided we will change the name, fall training seminar, committees are set to create guidelines. (All mentioned earlier) PARTICIPATION IS IMPORTANT FOR ALL THIS BECOME A REALITY!
Rob Gibbs: WACC 501C3 Non-profit Update Progress is being made, trying to decide tax exempt or not. Can be tricky to be a non-profit and be politically affiliated, checking with lawyers on this. Web domain is being created. NWAC will have our website link by next fall. Info exchange as well as information to the public via membership will be provided. (Much like the CAA’s website) Until the website is up, Jon Andrews has set up a Blog site for info exchange. Mission Statement is on the Blog site. Check it out and use it.
Dan Miller: Snow Related Explosives Research
Dan from Montana State University shared information on the Sub Zero Science and Engineering Research Facility. The facility works with many aspects of snow research. One aspect is about effective use of explosives for avalanche control. He is doing research on the thermal expansion of detonation and how it effects snow. With out going into detail, he gave an in depth presentation on his research and where he hopes it will be headed. (A copy of his power point presentation is available). He would appreciate feedback and letters of support to help his research and funding.
Rob Onstatt-ORICA Rob gave a run down of products offered. (check website for more info.) Rob informed us that all emulsions are essentially the same. Det velocity is diameter dependant and the max is about 1700. Aluminum in emulsion can be of benefit, making the energy available more efficient. Micro balloons within the charge can be damaged if broken. Can affect the effectiveness of the charge. For an unlit charge to be degradable, need moisture and warmth, the process is slower than most think.
Rob finished up with Showing the LO-1000 Avalauncher Gun. (Check website for more info.)
Chet Mowebry: Rescue Chet asked how different areas are training their patrollers. He mentioned that we should really be focusing on partner rescue. They buried a dummy a meter deep and timed patrollers how long before they got to an air way. Wake up call in times. Wants to set up an info share to start all areas looking hard at the aspects of rescue and how we train.
2009 NW Avalanche Forecasters Meeting Summary
ReplyDeleteMt. Hood Meadows Ski Area
Day One, March 12th
Jon Andrews: WACC (Western Avalanche Control Council)
This February Jon went to a week long International Society of Explosive Engineers, (ISEE), conference. Jon gave a presentation to the ISEE to educate them on what we as avalanche blasters, and hopefully to dispel some of their ideas that we are unsafe. He also pointed out that 90% of commerce and recreation is effected by avalanche control in the winter, and thus we are an important part of the explosives community. He introduced the idea of including an avalanche control section to the ISEE. They seemed very receptive.
Jon feels that it is important to organize locally and have members of WACC become more involved with national organizations and the larger explosive community. (After all, we all do the same thing, in that we use explosives in the work place.) Some of the advantages are more resources on education, research and development, as well as dealing with issues on the legislative front. One important step is to re-establish the PNW Chapter of the ISEE and become individual members for around $15.00 per year. Participation is essential!
Some of the issues that came up is that other explosives interties still see the detonation system of our hand charges as archaic and don’t seem to understand our safety record of ignitions per poundage of explosives and what we have done about the accidents involving the use of Cap and fuse- strengthened our training programs and becoming more involved with other blasters. Also, that there are no safe alternatives to the hand held detonation system at the present time. (Research is being done with the electrical detonation system, but it still seems to be a ways out before a viable solution). Another issue was a longer fuse is not a safer alternative either. Jon was asked if he thought the three fatalities with the cap and fuse since the 1950's is an acceptable risk. His answer was no, but showed our procedures and guidelines to lower the risk. (We all follow an industry standard, as well as in area standards.)
On other WACC issues, Jon pointed out that there is little information on training and education for the new comers to avalanche blasting. The NSAA blasting video is too expensive, and only available to members. The cost is too much, so not many use it. We need information to be available to all blasters. This is where WACC should come in. With specific guidelines and training that we create, we could get everyone on the same page. This coming fall we will put on an educational seminar for first and second year blasters. Rob Onstott, of ORICA, said he is willing to put on training sessions in other areas of blasting for us as well.
Three committees have been set up to create an information resource for all avalanche blasters:
Committee 1: Resource Guide of Avalanche Explosive Use
Rob Onstott, Jon Andrews, & Tighe Stoyanass
Committee 2: Research & Development of Avalanche Control Explosives
Joanne Stanford & Chris Brixey
Committee 3: Rescue
Chet Mowebry, Betsy Nelson, & Patty Morrison
Please send your recourse photos and information to these committees.
Another subject that Jon brought up, is that of the Washington Code. We need to keep in mind that we the users, help develop this code. Over the years, we have been given the ability to give input for changes made. He is presently working on House Bill 1280, which deals with the licensing of blasters and background check issues. L& I was willing to discuss and work with the WACC position on this issue. So far, it has passed the House and now is gone to the Senate. Jon will testify to the Senate on March 17th. Another issue is the ski area lift lines being listed in the inhabited buildings. This needs to be addressed soon. This could effect ski areas greatly, by further expansion and moving of magazines. Ways to address this is to lobby BATFE via letters and emails and show WACC support.
Important for people to get involved and participate!!!
Future WACC Proposals:
WACC becoming non-profit (501-C3)
WACC changing name to include other states (“Washington” to become “Western”)
Using WACC Blog until web site is ready
Posting email listing for easier communication
Establish who is willing to participate from each ski area and DOT for information exchange.
Training Seminar for next fall
Tighe Stoyanoss : Unusual Snowpack
Tighe asked about the unusual pack and wondered if areas were getting post control slides. Both Schwitzer and Bachelor have.
Patty Morrison: Summary of Northerly Aspect Weak layer at Stevens Pass
After the January rain event, a thick layer of facets developed on the Northerly aspects. This layer has been persistent and approximately 20 cm thick, and is buried by more than a meter. So far it hasn’t much energy, but could be a problem with more load. This year there has been an unusual number of reports on whumping and settlement sounds from back country users. Possibly this layer?
Mark Moore: Future of NWAC
Last ten years NWAC has had a decrease in funding. By 2010, NWAC will lose Forest Service Funding. A two year study was created to see what could be done to help. Senate Bill 5596 could contribute $144,000 per year if passed. Possibility of State License Plate revenue as well. NWAC’s website will merge with Friends of NWAC, so that revenue from advertising could be achieved. Hope to happen by late spring and ready for use by next winter season.
Mark also brought up that the current Avalanche Danger Scale is under review. Bruce Tremper surveyed many people and found the “considerable” category still mis-understood by many public recreationalists. New focus is on making the scale more user friendly for teir 1 users. Mark asked if anybody was interested in doing a similar survey in the NW. Talk to him if you are interested.
Mark informed us that the CR10x data loggers will be phased out and changed toCR5000's. Taylor Scientific will still service the CR10X’s though.
Besty Nelson:Questions about Instrumentation
Mt. Bachelor has an intense riming problem and wants to know how to deal with it. Suggestions we to check to see how old their instruments are and check the thermistors.
Taylor Scientific is her best resource.
Dave Sly: CIL Orion Product Review
Dave gave a review of the products he offers. (Check website for more info.)
CIL Orion has just bought out Martin and Shaft. No more notices with the pull wire igniter, they will be avalanche control friendly.
Tail Fins have been worked on to fit better, some cracking have been reported and considered a manufacturing problem that is being addressed.
Rebate check sent to AAA for explosive training could be split with WAC, to insure that it gets used for proper intention of explosive education for avalanche control.
Dave feels that most of the avalaucher guns in use are potential dangerous because of no vessel pressure certifications. Guns should be inspected every two years
Tour of Mt. Hood Meadows
Group was led around to see unique problems of Meadows avalanche terrain. We were shown the 105 Howitzer which has improved their program immensely as far as safety to patrollers and having the specific area (Heather Canyon) open more often and in a timely manner. Meadows has just opened up some new terrain where trams are an appropriate means of delivery. Great Area.
Day Two, March 13th
Jon Andrews - Summing up Proposals for WACC
Decided we will change the name, fall training seminar, committees are set to create guidelines.
(All mentioned earlier)
PARTICIPATION IS IMPORTANT FOR ALL THIS BECOME A REALITY!
Rob Gibbs: WACC 501C3 Non-profit Update
Progress is being made, trying to decide tax exempt or not. Can be tricky to be a non-profit and be politically affiliated, checking with lawyers on this. Web domain is being created. NWAC will have our website link by next fall. Info exchange as well as information to the public via membership will be provided. (Much like the CAA’s website)
Until the website is up, Jon Andrews has set up a Blog site for info exchange. Mission Statement is on the Blog site. Check it out and use it.
Dan Miller: Snow Related Explosives Research
Dan from Montana State University shared information on the Sub Zero Science and Engineering Research Facility. The facility works with many aspects of snow research. One aspect is about effective use of explosives for avalanche control. He is doing research on the thermal expansion of detonation and how it effects snow. With out going into detail, he gave an in depth presentation on his research and where he hopes it will be headed. (A copy of his power point presentation is available). He would appreciate feedback and letters of support to help his research and funding.
Rob Onstatt-ORICA
Rob gave a run down of products offered. (check website for more info.)
Rob informed us that all emulsions are essentially the same. Det velocity is diameter dependant and the max is about 1700. Aluminum in emulsion can be of benefit, making the energy available more efficient. Micro balloons within the charge can be damaged if broken. Can affect the effectiveness of the charge. For an unlit charge to be degradable, need moisture and warmth, the process is slower than most think.
Rob finished up with Showing the LO-1000 Avalauncher Gun. (Check website for more
info.)
Chet Mowebry: Rescue
Chet asked how different areas are training their patrollers. He mentioned that we should really be focusing on partner rescue. They buried a dummy a meter deep and timed patrollers how long before they got to an air way. Wake up call in times. Wants to set up an info share to start all areas looking hard at the aspects of rescue and how we train.
2010 Forecasters Meeting will be at White Pass
Dose anyone have photos of the Forecasters meeting they want to post?
ReplyDeleteNotes for the Forecasters meeting taken by Chris Catlin and Patty Morrison.
ReplyDelete